{"id":6454,"date":"2022-11-10T21:57:32","date_gmt":"2022-11-10T21:57:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/?p=6454"},"modified":"2022-11-10T21:57:36","modified_gmt":"2022-11-10T21:57:36","slug":"opinion-mike-pence-my-last-days-with-donald-trump","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/?p=6454","title":{"rendered":"Opinion | Mike Pence: My Last Days With Donald Trump"},"content":{"rendered":"

November 10, 2022 at 11:32AM Opinion | Mike Pence: My Last Days With Donald Trump<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

Thirteen days after the 2020 election, I had lunch with President Trump. I told him that if his legal challenges came up short, he could simply accept the results, move forward with the transition, and start a political comeback, winning the Senate runoffs in Georgia, the 2021 Virginia governor\u2019s race, and the House and Senate in 2022. Then he could run for president in 2024 and win. He seemed unmoved, even weary: \u201cI don\u2019t know, 2024 is so far off.\u201d<\/p>\n

In a Dec. 5 call, the president for the first time mentioned challenging the election results in Congress. By mid-December, the internet was filled with speculation about my role. An irresponsible TV ad by a group calling itself the Lincoln Project suggested that when I presided over the Jan. 6 joint session of Congress to count the electoral votes, it would prove that I knew \u201cit\u2019s over,\u201d and that by doing my constitutional duty, I would be \u201cputting the final nail in the coffin\u201d of the president\u2019s re-election. To my knowledge, it was the first time anyone implied I might be able to change the outcome. It was designed to annoy the president. It worked. During a December cabinet meeting, President Trump told me the ad \u201clooked bad for you.\u201d I replied that it wasn\u2019t true: I had fully supported the legal challenges to the election and would continue to do so.<\/p>\n

\n

On Dec. 19, the president mentioned plans for a rally in Washington on Jan. 6. I thought that would be useful to call attention to the proceedings. I had just spoken with a senator about the importance of vetting concerns about the election before Congress and the American people. At the White House on Dec. 21, Ohio Rep.\u00a0Jim Jordan\u00a0led lawmakers in a discussion about plans to bring objections. I promised that all properly submitted objections would be recognized and fully debated.<\/p>\n

On Dec. 23, my family boarded Air Force Two to spend Christmas with friends. As we flew across America, President Trump retweeted an obscure article titled \u201cOperation Pence Card.\u201d It alluded to the theory that if all else failed, I could alter the outcome of the election on Jan. 6. I showed it to Karen, my wife, and rolled my eyes.

\n
\n<\/div>\n

On Dec. 30, Missouri Sen.\u00a0Josh Hawley\u00a0announced that he would co-sponsor election objections brought by representatives. I welcomed Sen. Hawley\u2019s decision because it meant we would have a substantive debate. Without a senator\u2019s support, I would have been required to dismiss House objections without debate, something I didn\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n

Early on New Year\u2019s Day, the phone rang. Texas Rep.\u00a0Louie Gohmert\u00a0and other Republicans had filed a lawsuit asking a federal judge to declare that I had \u201cexclusive authority and sole discretion\u201d to decide which electoral votes should count. \u201cI don\u2019t want to see \u2018Pence Opposes Gohmert Suit\u2019 as a headline this morning,\u201d the president said. I told him I did oppose it. \u201cIf it gives you the power,\u201d he asked, \u201cwhy would you oppose it?\u201d I told him, as I had many times, that I didn\u2019t believe I possessed that power under the Constitution.<\/p>\n

\u201cYou\u2019re too honest,\u201d he chided. \u201cHundreds of thousands are gonna hate your guts. .\u00a0.\u00a0. People are gonna think you\u2019re stupid.\u201d<\/p>\n

On Saturday, Jan. 2, I instructed my chief of staff to issue a statement supporting the right of lawmakers to bring objections under the Electoral Count Act. By Sunday morning, the headline \u201cPence Welcomes Congressional Republicans\u2019 Bid to Challenge Electoral Votes\u201d was everywhere. When the president called me that morning, his mood had brightened. \u201cYou have gone from very unpopular to popular!\u201d he exclaimed. But then he pressed me again to reject electoral votes unilaterally. \u201cYou can be a historic figure,\u201d he said, \u201cbut if you wimp out, you\u2019re just another somebody.\u201d<\/p>\n

On Jan. 4, the president\u2019s chief of staff,\u00a0Mark Meadows, summoned me to the Oval Office for a meeting with a long list of attendees, including the legal scholar\u00a0John Eastman. I listened respectfully as Mr. Eastman argued that I should modify the proceedings, which require that electoral votes be opened and counted in alphabetical order, by saving the five disputed states until the end. Mr. Eastman claimed I had the authority to return the votes to the states until each legislature certified which of the competing slate of electors for the state was correct. I had already confirmed that there were no competing electors.<\/p>\n

Mr. Eastman repeatedly qualified his argument, saying it was only a legal theory. I asked, \u201cDo you think I have the authority to reject or return votes?\u201d<\/p>\n

He stammered, \u201cWell, it\u2019s never been tested in the courts, so I think it is an open question.\u201d<\/p>\n

At that I turned to the president, who was distracted, and said, \u201cMr. President, did you hear that? Even your lawyer doesn\u2019t think I have the authority to return electoral votes.\u201d The president nodded. As Mr. Eastman struggled to explain, the president replied, \u201cI like the other thing better,\u201d presumably meaning that I could simply reject electoral votes.<\/p>\n

On Jan. 5, I got an urgent call that the president was asking to see me in the Oval Office. The president\u2019s lawyers, including Mr. Eastman, were now requesting that I simply reject the electors. I later learned that Mr. Eastman had conceded to my general counsel that rejecting electoral votes was a bad idea and any attempt to do so would be quickly overturned by a unanimous Supreme Court. This guy didn\u2019t even believe what he was telling the president.<\/p>\n

Right before going to bed, I saw that the Trump campaign had issued a statement.\u00a0The New York Times<\/a>\u00a0reported that I had told the president I didn\u2019t believe I had the power to block congressional certification of the election. That was true, but the statement called it \u201cfake news.\u201d I had a feeling that Jan. 6, 2021, was going to be a very long day.<\/p>\n

\n
\"\"<\/figure>\n

Trump supporters protest inside the U.S. Capitol after breeching security in Washington, Jan. 6, 2021.<\/span>PHOTO:\u00a0<\/span>BRENT STIRTON\/GETTY IMAGES<\/span><\/div>\n

I rose early that day and worked on my statement to Congress. When the phone rang a little after 11 a.m., it was the president. \u201cDespite the press release you issued last night,\u201d I said, \u201cI have always been forthright with you, Mr. President.\u201d I reiterated that I didn\u2019t believe I had the power to decide which electoral votes would count and said I would be issuing a statement to Congress confirming that before the joint session started.<\/p>\n

The president laid into me. \u201cYou\u2019ll go down as a wimp,\u201d he said. \u201cIf you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago!\u201d<\/p>\n

But when he said, \u201cYou\u2019re not protecting our country, you\u2019re supposed to support and defend our country!\u201d I calmly reminded him, \u201cWe both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.\u201d<\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

As I headed to the Capitol, President Trump took the stage. He told the crowd: \u201cI hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so. Because if\u00a0Mike Pence<\/a>\u00a0does the right thing, we win the election.\u201d Repeating the argument made by the crank lawyers standing just offstage, he said, \u201cAll he has to do, all this is, this is from the No. 1, or certainly one of the top, constitutional lawyers in our country. .\u00a0.\u00a0. All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify and we become president and you are the happiest people.\u201d<\/p>\n

As our motorcade arrived at the Capitol, I saw thousands of protesters standing peacefully on the East Lawn. I felt compassion for all the good people who had traveled to Washington having been told that the outcome of the election could be changed. They cheered as we entered. I turned to my daughter and sighed: \u201cGod bless those people. They\u2019re gonna be so disappointed.\u201d<\/p>\n

I had no idea that what was later described as a \u201cwall of people\u201d had formed about a block west of the Capitol. As I led senators onto the House floor, the mood was solemn. There was no indication of the mayhem unfolding outside. Speaker\u00a0Nancy Pelosi<\/a>\u00a0gaveled the chamber into session a little after 1 p.m.<\/p>\n

When the electoral votes for Arizona were opened, Rep.\u00a0Paul Gosar\u00a0rose to raise the first objection of the day, co-sponsored by 60 representatives. When I asked if the motion had a Senate sponsor,\u00a0Ted Cruz\u00a0rose. I adjourned the joint session and accompanied senators back to their chamber, still oblivious to the riot outside.<\/p>\n

<\/div>\n

Forty minutes into the session, Republican\u00a0James Lankford\u00a0of Oklahoma had the floor when the Senate parliamentarian,\u00a0Elizabeth MacDonough, seated a few feet in front of me, leaned back in her chair and whispered: \u201cMr. Vice President, protesters have breached the building\u2019s doors on the first floor. Just informing you.\u201d<\/p>\n

A member of my Secret Service detail walked onto the Senate floor, straight to my chair, and said, \u201cMr. Vice President, we gotta go.\u201d I was confident that the U.S. Capitol Police would soon have the situation in hand, so I told him we\u2019d wait in the nearby ceremonial office reserved for my use as president of the Senate.<\/p>\n

Soon my lead Secret Service agent,\u00a0Timothy Giebels, walked into that crowded office and said, \u201cSir, we\u2019ve got to get you out of the building.\u201d The protesters who had smashed their way into the House side of the Capitol were heading for the Senate. I later learned that many had come looking for me.<\/p>\n

I told my detail that I wasn\u2019t leaving my post. Mr. Giebels pleaded for us to leave. The rioters had reached our floor. I pointed my finger at his chest and said, \u201cYou\u2019re not hearing me, I\u2019m not leaving! I\u2019m not giving those people the sight of a 16-car motorcade speeding away from the Capitol.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cOK,\u201d he answered in a voice that made it clear that it wasn\u2019t. \u201cWell, we can\u2019t stay here. This office only has a glass door, and we can\u2019t protect you.\u201d<\/p>\n

My daughter Charlotte, sensing my frustration, asked, \u201cIsn\u2019t there somewhere else dad can go that is still in the Capitol?\u201d Mr. Giebels said we could move to the loading dock and garage, a few stories below. I agreed.<\/p>\n

The steps were secured. We walked out into the hall slowly. All around us was a blur of motion and chaos: security and police officers directing people to safety, staffers shouting and running for shelter. I heard footsteps and angry chanting. Making our way to the basement of the Capitol took a few extra minutes because I insisted that we walk, not run. The Secret Service team grudgingly accommodated me.<\/p>\n

Arriving in the loading dock, we saw that our motorcade had been repositioned, with all the cars pointed toward a ramp leading out. Mr. Giebels began to escort us toward our cars. I stopped and said, \u201cI\u2019m not getting in the car.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cSir,\u201d he replied, \u201cwe\u2019re just going to have you wait in the car, but we are not leaving the Capitol.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cTim, I believe you,\u201d I said. \u201cYou\u2019re a man of integrity, but you\u2019re not driving that car.\u201d I knew that if we got into the car, somebody would tell the driver to get us out of the building.<\/p>\n

We had no television in the garage, so my staff and security team briefed me on the situation using police radio communications and Twitter. The House and Senate leaders had been whisked away to a secure location off Capitol Hill, but other members were barricaded in the House chamber as Capitol Police worked to hold back the mob.<\/p>\n

My unflappable assistant\u00a0Zach Bauer\u00a0walked up sheepishly and handed me his phone. The president had sent a tweet at 2:24 p.m.: \u201cMike Pence didn\u2019t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!\u201d<\/p>\n

Rioters were ransacking the Capitol. Some of them, I was later told, were chanting, \u201cHang Mike Pence!\u201d I ignored the tweet and got back to work.<\/p>\n

My chief of staff arranged for a conference call with the congressional leadership. Senate Minority Leader\u00a0Mitch McConnell\u00a0made the point that it was imperative Congress reconvene as soon as possible to complete the vote count. Everyone agreed.<\/p>\n

By 2:38 p.m., it appeared that cooler heads had prevailed at the White House. The president tweeted, \u201cPlease support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!\u201d A half hour later, he urged the rioters to \u201cremain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order\u2014respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue.\u201d At 4:17 p.m., the president issued a video telling the rioters, \u201cI know your pain, I know your hurt .\u00a0.\u00a0. but you have to go home now, we have to have peace.\u201d<\/p>\n

By 7 p.m., we had been cleared to return to my office. When the session reconvened, everything changed. Many lawmakers withdrew support for objections that had been properly filed. Beyond the violence and destruction, the Jan. 6 rioters had managed to end the debate over election irregularities. At around 3:40 a.m., Sen.\u00a0Amy Klobuchar\u00a0of Minnesota read the results of the 2020 election.<\/p>\n

I met with the president on Jan. 11. He looked tired, and his voice seemed fainter than usual. \u201cHow are you?\u201d he began. \u201cHow are Karen and Charlotte?\u201d I replied tersely that we were fine and told him that they had been at the Capitol on Jan. 6. He responded with a hint of regret, \u201cI just learned that.\u201d He then asked, \u201cWere you scared?\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cNo,\u201d I replied, \u201cI was angry. You and I had our differences that day, Mr. President, and seeing those people tearing up the Capitol infuriated me.\u201d<\/p>\n

He started to bring up the election, saying that people were angry, but his voice trailed off.<\/p>\n

I told him he had to set that aside, and he responded quietly, \u201cYeah.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cThose people who broke into the Capitol might\u2019ve been supporters, but they are not our movement.\u201d For five years, we had both spoken to crowds of the most patriotic, law-abiding, God-fearing people in the country.<\/p>\n

With genuine sadness in his voice, the president mused: \u201cWhat if we hadn\u2019t had the rally? What if they hadn\u2019t gone to the Capitol?\u201d Then he said, \u201cIt\u2019s too terrible to end like this.\u201d<\/p>\n

On Jan. 14, the day after President Trump was impeached for the second time, I stopped by the Oval Office. The night before, he had unequivocally denounced the violence at the Capitol and called for calm and national unity. I congratulated him on his address. \u201cI knew you\u2019d like it,\u201d he said. He seemed discouraged, so I reminded him that I was praying for him.<\/p>\n

\u201cDon\u2019t bother,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n

As I stood to leave, he said, \u201cIt\u2019s been fun.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cA privilege, Mr. President,\u201d I answered.<\/p>\n

\u201cYeah, with you.\u201d<\/p>\n

Walking toward the door leading to the hallway, I paused, looked the president in the eye, and said, \u201cI guess we will just have to disagree on two things.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cWhat?\u201d<\/p>\n

I referred to our disagreement about Jan. 6 and then said, \u201cI\u2019m also never gonna stop praying for you.\u201d<\/p>\n

He smiled: \u201cThat\u2019s right\u2014don\u2019t ever change.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

y Last Days With Donald Trump<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

I supported legitimate challenges to the 2020 vote counts. I also recognized that the Constitution didn\u2019t give me authority to override the voters\u2014and I followed my conscience on Jan. 6.<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n

via WSJ<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

November 10, 2022 at 11:32AM Opinion | Mike Pence: My Last Days With Donald Trump Thirteen days after the 2020 election, I had lunch with President Trump. I told him that if his legal challenges came up short, he could simply accept the results, move forward with the transition, and start a political comeback, winning […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":6460,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[259,221,8],"tags":[103],"class_list":["post-6454","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-deep-state","category-election-integrity","category-featured-stories","tag-sbn"],"featured_image_urls":{"full":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=1698%2C1102&ssl=1",1698,1102,false],"thumbnail":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?resize=150%2C150&ssl=1",150,150,true],"medium":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=300%2C195&ssl=1",300,195,true],"medium_large":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=768%2C498&ssl=1",768,498,true],"large":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=1024%2C665&ssl=1",1024,665,true],"rpg_gallery_admin_thumb":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?resize=150%2C150&ssl=1",150,150,true],"rpg_gallery_thumb":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?resize=150%2C150&ssl=1",150,150,true],"1536x1536":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=1536%2C997&ssl=1",1536,997,true],"2048x2048":["https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=1698%2C1102&ssl=1",1698,1102,true]},"author_info":{"info":["Peter Santilli"]},"category_info":"Deep State<\/a> Election Integrity<\/a> Featured Stories<\/a>","tag_info":"Featured Stories","comment_count":"0","jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/petersantilli.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/Screen-Shot-2022-11-10-at-4.56.28-PM.png?fit=1698%2C1102&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/plD2r-1G6","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6454","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=6454"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6454\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6461,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6454\/revisions\/6461"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/6460"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=6454"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=6454"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/petersantilli.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=6454"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}